Comments for Where's the Monkey? http://georgemann.wordpress.com The writings, musings and rantings of George Mann Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:50:43 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 Comment on World Fantasy Con by Lou Anders http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/world-fantasy-con/#comment-35 Lou Anders Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:50:43 +0000 http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/world-fantasy-con/#comment-35 Isn't it time to update this blog? Isn’t it time to update this blog?

]]> Comment on Kylie does it Glam by Michael http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/10/22/kylie-does-it-glam/#comment-27 Michael Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:49:14 +0000 http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/10/22/kylie-does-it-glam/#comment-27 Just downloaded it from itunes. Excellent. Just downloaded it from itunes. Excellent.

]]> Comment on Recent Story Sales by John Marco http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/story-sale/#comment-24 John Marco Sat, 03 Nov 2007 17:13:33 +0000 http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/story-sale/#comment-24 Hey George. Just discovered your blog. Congrats on the story sale. Hey George. Just discovered your blog. Congrats on the story sale.

]]> Comment on The life (and death) of sub-genre? by Tim Akers http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-21 Tim Akers Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:45:31 +0000 http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-21 Lou, something like that. And I think someone else already mentioned Maker culture as being key to any modern steampunk revolution. Lou, something like that. And I think someone else already mentioned Maker culture as being key to any modern steampunk revolution.

]]> Comment on The life (and death) of sub-genre? by Mark Newton http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-20 Mark Newton Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:24:17 +0000 http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-20 Stranger science, yes. But that's the point I think. It's abstract to the point of being useless to fiction. I remember studying philosophy of science, and chaos theory when it was more than just those pretty pictures, and it's not the most rigorous stuff with which to compose fiction. I think my original comment was something steered more towards the mundane sides of things though. Stranger science, yes. But that’s the point I think. It’s abstract to the point of being useless to fiction. I remember studying philosophy of science, and chaos theory when it was more than just those pretty pictures, and it’s not the most rigorous stuff with which to compose fiction. I think my original comment was something steered more towards the mundane sides of things though.

]]> Comment on The life (and death) of sub-genre? by Lou Anders http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-19 Lou Anders Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:19:29 +0000 http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-19 George - this suggests that as we get deeper into the 21st century, and really come into the age of biotechnology, that the classic 60s "captain and crew on the bridge of a starship" may look as quaint and anachronistic to us as steampunk does now. A road not taken, where space travel took off when we were still unaugmented humanity. Mark - there is more and stranger science than ever. We're going to see more trips to parallel worlds and pocket universes, though, rather than other planets. Watch. Tim - interesting. You've just tied movements in SF to periods of outsider-driven technological growth spurts. I don't think I've seen anyone do that before. You're a genius. So, to predict the next big wave in SF, we should look for emerging technologies that will have their breakout on the fringe before being taken up by the mainstream. George – this suggests that as we get deeper into the 21st century, and really come into the age of biotechnology, that the classic 60s “captain and crew on the bridge of a starship” may look as quaint and anachronistic to us as steampunk does now. A road not taken, where space travel took off when we were still unaugmented humanity.

Mark – there is more and stranger science than ever. We’re going to see more trips to parallel worlds and pocket universes, though, rather than other planets. Watch.

Tim – interesting. You’ve just tied movements in SF to periods of outsider-driven technological growth spurts. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone do that before. You’re a genius. So, to predict the next big wave in SF, we should look for emerging technologies that will have their breakout on the fringe before being taken up by the mainstream.

]]> Comment on The life (and death) of sub-genre? by Tim Akers http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-18 Tim Akers Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:50:41 +0000 http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-18 Well, one of the things about steampunk that appeals to me is the availability of the technology. As is popularly discussed over at Brass Goggles, the Victorian era was pretty much the last time someone could graduate from high school and be up to date on state of the art technology. The real technological breakthroughs weren't coming from research grants at universities, but from garages and toolsheds of hobbyists. There was a brief outbreak of that with computers, and in some way I feel that's what really led to cyberpunk as a genre. Well, one of the things about steampunk that appeals to me is the availability of the technology. As is popularly discussed over at Brass Goggles, the Victorian era was pretty much the last time someone could graduate from high school and be up to date on state of the art technology. The real technological breakthroughs weren’t coming from research grants at universities, but from garages and toolsheds of hobbyists. There was a brief outbreak of that with computers, and in some way I feel that’s what really led to cyberpunk as a genre.

]]> Comment on The life (and death) of sub-genre? by Mark Newton http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-17 Mark Newton Thu, 20 Sep 2007 06:04:12 +0000 http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-17 Here's another thought--looking at how writers react, rightly so, according to culture. Perhaps science has now caught up so much with what used to be fiction, that there are fewer new places to see. Science certainly moves, in fiction, in more abstract terms--look at NOVA SWING, for a wonderful example. That only leaves the past to reinvent, which is maybe why there's been a resurgence in Steampunk, and even more pulp-based fictions. Here’s another thought–looking at how writers react, rightly so, according to culture. Perhaps science has now caught up so much with what used to be fiction, that there are fewer new places to see. Science certainly moves, in fiction, in more abstract terms–look at NOVA SWING, for a wonderful example. That only leaves the past to reinvent, which is maybe why there’s been a resurgence in Steampunk, and even more pulp-based fictions.

]]> Comment on The life (and death) of sub-genre? by michaelrowley http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-16 michaelrowley Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:14:17 +0000 http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-16 I think Steampunk has a long way yet to go before it’s absorbed back into mainstream SF, if that ever happens. While it obviously has its origins in the larger genre, I’d agree with Chris’s Steampunk/Gaslit Mystery analogy and I think it benefits from that as real world technology isn’t going to catch up as it did to an extent with early Cyperpunk. People still want gaslit mystery in an age of CSI and forensics, so I see no reason why Steampunk would be any different for the SF reader. The fact that we’re talking about the recent and quite widespread use of it’s tropes and devices in Fantasy Fiction suggests, if anything, that Steampunk might finally be solidifying it’s position as a solid and enduring sub-genre. Imitation being the highest form of flattery and all, it seems to me that a non-historical fantasy novels using Steampunk/Clockpunk (let’s not forget the Monkeypunk!) ideas are, perhaps, not purely what one could call Steampunk, but if it’s got the zeppelins and the brass hardware to go with it, it certainly feels as much like Steampunk as Biopunk feels like Cyberpunk. What interests me most about the ‘pure’ Steampunk, though, is the huge potential it has in the current market considering the popularity of historical fiction in the mainstream. It’s no more of a stretch to think Steampunk could go huge than to have anticipated the success of Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell. All we need to do is exchange the magic for some octo-monkeys, airships and steam powered thinking machines and we could have a very substantial and long-term viable genre on our hands. I think Steampunk has a long way yet to go before it’s absorbed back into mainstream SF, if that ever happens. While it obviously has its origins in the larger genre, I’d agree with Chris’s Steampunk/Gaslit Mystery analogy and I think it benefits from that as real world technology isn’t going to catch up as it did to an extent with early Cyperpunk. People still want gaslit mystery in an age of CSI and forensics, so I see no reason why Steampunk would be any different for the SF reader.
The fact that we’re talking about the recent and quite widespread use of it’s tropes and devices in Fantasy Fiction suggests, if anything, that Steampunk might finally be solidifying it’s position as a solid and enduring sub-genre. Imitation being the highest form of flattery and all, it seems to me that a non-historical fantasy novels using Steampunk/Clockpunk (let’s not forget the Monkeypunk!) ideas are, perhaps, not purely what one could call Steampunk, but if it’s got the zeppelins and the brass hardware to go with it, it certainly feels as much like Steampunk as Biopunk feels like Cyberpunk.
What interests me most about the ‘pure’ Steampunk, though, is the huge potential it has in the current market considering the popularity of historical fiction in the mainstream. It’s no more of a stretch to think Steampunk could go huge than to have anticipated the success of Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell. All we need to do is exchange the magic for some octo-monkeys, airships and steam powered thinking machines and we could have a very substantial and long-term viable genre on our hands.

]]> Comment on The life (and death) of sub-genre? by George Mann http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-15 George Mann Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:39:37 +0000 http://georgemann.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-life-and-death-of-sub-genre/#comment-15 Whilst it's certainly true that much steampunk seems to be influenced by the work of Wells and Verne (ie: tone, style, period) I think this is as much a form of *nostalgia* for this early science fiction than any direct development from there to here. You need to remember that both of those writers were working at the cutting edge of the literature of their time(s), that every reference to science they were using had its roots in the thinking of the age. In terms of the development of genre, I think both of those writers have more in common with the likes of Peter Watts and Stephen Baxter, in the manner in which they use contemporary science as a means to extrapolate a story. But you're right to bring them up, as that nostalgia is plainly evident. In truth, though, I think it has as much to do with the Victoriana elements of steampunk, and the fact that modern writers are using ideas appropriate to that age - taking Victorian concepts of science and progress and playing with them in a fictional context, exploring how society may have been altered if any or all of these ideas had become reality. Whilst it’s certainly true that much steampunk seems to be influenced by the work of Wells and Verne (ie: tone, style, period) I think this is as much a form of *nostalgia* for this early science fiction than any direct development from there to here. You need to remember that both of those writers were working at the cutting edge of the literature of their time(s), that every reference to science they were using had its roots in the thinking of the age.
In terms of the development of genre, I think both of those writers have more in common with the likes of Peter Watts and Stephen Baxter, in the manner in which they use contemporary science as a means to extrapolate a story.
But you’re right to bring them up, as that nostalgia is plainly evident. In truth, though, I think it has as much to do with the Victoriana elements of steampunk, and the fact that modern writers are using ideas appropriate to that age – taking Victorian concepts of science and progress and playing with them in a fictional context, exploring how society may have been altered if any or all of these ideas had become reality.

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